Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 17

01/31/2008 01:30 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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01:33:23 PM Start
01:33:34 PM State Transportation Improvement Plan
03:27:52 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ State Transportation Improvement Plan TELECONFERENCED
(STIP)
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                        January 31, 2008                                                                                        
                           1:33 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kyle Johansen, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Anna Fairclough                                                                                                  
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
STATE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PLAN                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JEFF OTTESEN, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Program Development                                                                                                 
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Continued is presentation on the STIP and                                                                
answered questions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KYLE JOHANSEN  called  the  House Transportation  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:33:23  PM.    Representatives                                                             
Johansen,  Johnson,  Keller,  Neuman,  Doogan,  and  Salmon  were                                                               
present at the call to  order.  Representative Fairclough arrived                                                               
as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
^State Transportation Improvement Plan                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:33:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN announced the only  order of business would be the                                                               
continuation of the State  Transportation Improvement Plan (STIP)                                                               
presentation,  and  directed the  committee  to  page 13  of  the                                                               
handout.  He asked Mr. Ottesen to explain the new handouts.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:34:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFF   OTTESEN,  Director,   Division  of   Program  Development,                                                               
Department  of  Transportation   &  Public  Facilities  (DOT&PF),                                                               
explained  to  members that  the  blue,  two-page draft  document                                                               
summarizes the strategic  highway safety plan.  Its  key point is                                                               
that  four state  agencies, several  federal  agencies, and  many                                                               
local agencies jointly prepared the plan.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said Congress mandated  that states develop strategic                                                               
highway safety  plans.   Congress envisioned  government agencies                                                               
making  a joint  effort to  accomplish the  task.   He encouraged                                                               
members to  read the  document and  stressed that  highway safety                                                               
needs more attention.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:35:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN began his presentation, as follows:                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The  simple take  away number  is if  we do  what we're                                                                    
     doing today,  which is  a pretty good  job, if  we just                                                                    
     continue doing  that, in 10  years up to  1,000 deaths,                                                                    
     five to six  times that major injuries,  and $5 billion                                                                    
     in  societal costs  [will have  occurred] from  highway                                                                    
     accidents.   That will be our  tax as a state.   If you                                                                    
     think about the chances of  dying in a highway accident                                                                    
     with 1,000 deaths  in 10 years, it's  a remarkably high                                                                    
     set  of odds.    It's less  than 1  in  1,000 for  each                                                                    
     individual here  in the  room.  It's  very real.   It's                                                                    
     very  tragic.   I just  got a  notice today  of another                                                                    
     tragedy in  the Kenai area  - a  13 year old  boy died.                                                                    
     It goes on and I now  see those reports every time they                                                                    
     come  in and  they  sometimes  are just  heartbreaking.                                                                    
     So, enough of that.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:35:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The  other  handout  is  on  functional  class,  a  few                                                                    
     slides.  We call them the  pyramid charts.  I'll take a                                                                    
     minute just to explain the  first one and then the rest                                                                    
     of  it  will go  easy.    [These  are] the  four  major                                                                    
     classifications  in  functional class  from  arterials,                                                                    
     the  most important  roads in  terms  of their  purpose                                                                    
     down to local  roads.  And then the  chart further down                                                                    
     is  representative of  the number  of lane  miles.   So                                                                    
     this  is a  representation of  how many  lane miles  of                                                                    
     each class and then it  also illustrates who owns those                                                                    
     lane  miles  so  you  see  for  the  top  two  classes,                                                                    
     arterials and major collectors,  DOT is the predominant                                                                    
     owner  and  those two  classes  total  up to  about  30                                                                    
     percent of the lane miles in the state.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Prior  to 1991,  and a  change in  federal law  at that                                                                    
     time, our  federal dollars could  only go to  those top                                                                    
     tiers.   There was  no ability to  spend them  below on                                                                    
     minor collectors  or local  class roads.   In  1991 the                                                                    
     law  changed for  Alaska  and Alaska  only.   No  other                                                                    
     state has  this permission and  it's both a  good thing                                                                    
     and a bad thing.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:37:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The good  thing is you can  now work on roads  that are                                                                    
     functionally  classed in  the lower  tiers but  the bad                                                                    
     thing  is  you've  tripled   your  mileage  that  these                                                                    
     dollars could apply  to and it makes it  harder then to                                                                    
     focus  on the  top  roads, which  is  really where  the                                                                    
     action  occurs.   I'll show  you that  in the  next two                                                                    
     slides.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     ... The second  one presents the four  tiers in exactly                                                                    
     the same order,  arterials down to local,  but it's now                                                                    
     reflecting the amount of traffic  each is carrying.  So                                                                    
     you can see those top two  tiers are only 30 percent of                                                                    
     our miles of  road but they are carrying  35 percent of                                                                    
     total  traffic.   So, that's  really  where people  are                                                                    
     traveling, the predominance of their miles.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:37:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  asked how  to incorporate  the information                                                               
to specific  areas.  He asked  if the same facts  and percentages                                                               
hold true in the Mat-Su Borough.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  they  hold  true for  any  place  on the  road                                                               
network.  The  community of Kenai would have the  same numbers as                                                               
Anchorage and  the same hierarchy of  roads exists in both.   The                                                               
Parks Highway and Glenn Highway  are major arterials.  The lesser                                                               
roads are  classified as major collectors,  minor collectors, and                                                               
local roads.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:39:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The third  slide simply shows  you where  the accidents                                                                    
     occur in this state and we  have a value we assign to a                                                                    
     fatal accident, to a major  injury accident, to a minor                                                                    
     injury  accident and  to  a  property damage  accident.                                                                    
     When  the  number of  accidents  is  multiplied by  the                                                                    
     class of  accidents, 86 percent of  the accidents occur                                                                    
     in the top two tiers.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:39:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if roads  are classified according to                                                               
their use  in a specific  area or whether it  is a matter  of how                                                               
roads are designed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN replied  roads  are classified  by  both.   Arterial                                                               
roads are  at one end  of the continuum,  local roads are  at the                                                               
other.   The  primary  purpose of  an arterial  road  is to  move                                                               
traffic from  place to place,  not to provide access  to adjacent                                                               
property.   That is a  function of local  roads.  He  pointed out                                                               
local driveways are not located  along the Glenn Highway.  Access                                                               
to local property is from a second tier road.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:40:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked how the classification  system would                                                               
apply to  a 12-mile gravel  road in, for  example, Representative                                                               
Salmon's district that connects a village to the garbage dump.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  replied that  road would be  classified as  either a                                                               
major or minor collector because  it serves two purposes.  People                                                               
might use  that road to travel  a distance but might  also use it                                                               
to access a private home.  That  type of road falls in the middle                                                               
of    the   continuum;    DOT&PF    has   difficulty    assigning                                                               
classifications to such roads.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:41:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    DOOGAN    commented   that    assigning    road                                                               
classifications in an urban area  would be easier because traffic                                                               
patterns can be studied and design  standards can be applied.  He                                                               
asked how DOT&PF assigns the classifications in rural Alaska.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said the main road  in a village is  often linked to                                                               
an airport,  school, or  other major  points.    Those  roads are                                                               
typically  classified as  major collectors  and are  eligible for                                                               
federal funding.   He noted  the arterial road  classification is                                                               
relatively rare.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:42:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN questioned  whether arterials  are classified  as                                                               
part of the National Highway System.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN replied,  "That is  a  different classification  but                                                               
there is a  strong connection between arterials  and the National                                                               
Highway System.   He pointed  out that  not all arterials  are on                                                               
the  National  Highway System  but  almost  all National  Highway                                                               
System routes are arterials.  He continued his presentation.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     So, I just wanted to show you the functional class and                                                                     
     how it relates to the use of the system.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:42:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON referred  to the  statistics Mr.  Ottesen                                                               
talked about  earlier and asked  if 86 of 100  accidents happened                                                               
on arterial roads.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN noted  the numbers are a reflection  of the accidents                                                               
and their severity.  He explained:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     So a  property damage accident  only - that  is there's                                                                    
     only property  damage, there's  no human  injury, would                                                                    
     be  weighted at  a standard  value for  property damage                                                                    
     only  accidents.    An accident  involving  a  fatality                                                                    
     would be  weighted much, much higher.   Several million                                                                    
     dollars is the typical value that's assigned to this.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:43:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked whether  the value  amount includes                                                               
any  legal action  involved or  whether it  represents the  total                                                               
economic  picture  including  any  settlements.   He  also  asked                                                               
whether  two  passengers   in  a  vehicle  would   count  as  two                                                               
accidents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN explained  that a  collision is  considered to  be a                                                               
single event.   An average value derived  from national standards                                                               
is assigned to it.   The property damage category reflects damage                                                               
to the vehicle but no reported injuries.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:44:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked Mr. Ottesen  if he could provide the                                                               
total number  of accidents with  the weighting  or a copy  of the                                                               
formula.   He  commented  three accidents  could  account for  86                                                               
percent.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  pointed out the  weighting contains  values assigned                                                               
to accidents  that are nationally  recognized and used  by DOT&PF                                                               
consistently.  Those values and  accident records are used in the                                                               
safety project selection process  to identify which projects will                                                               
best  serve  the population.    He  stated,  "In rough  tiers,  a                                                               
property damage  accident is valued at  several thousand dollars.                                                               
A minor  injury is valued  at about $10,000.   A major  injury is                                                               
valued at  - it can  be as much as  almost $100,000 and  when you                                                               
get to fatal they go up to the millions."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:46:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  ascertained that  a fatal  accident would                                                               
skew the  numbers quite a  bit so that  the dollar factor  of one                                                               
accident on  a local road might  cause DOT&PF to view  the safety                                                               
of that road differently than reality would otherwise dictate.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  when getting down to that  much detail, traffic                                                               
engineers  would have  pretty good  records on  the cause  of the                                                               
accident.   Sometimes alcohol is  involved and the  road features                                                               
have  nothing  to  do  with  the  cause.  The  vast  majority  of                                                               
accidents, over 90 percent, are caused by driver behavior.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:46:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   remarked  that  number  is   used  when                                                               
assigning a value for the  purpose of deciding what projects will                                                               
be included in the  Statewide Transportation Improvement Projects                                                               
(STIP).   He  continued,  "You said  that you  did  it on  public                                                               
safety and  so you evaluate it  and you prioritize based  on this                                                               
so  I  am   assuming  that  this  number  feeds   into  the  STIP                                                               
somewhere."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said correct.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:47:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  expressed concern that the  STIP could be                                                               
manipulated  by  assessing  a value  and  using  an  inconsistent                                                               
formula  and again  asked Mr.  Ottesen to  provide him  with more                                                               
information about the formula.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  DOT&PF uses  nationally  respected sources  to                                                               
determine the values.  The  department consistently applies those                                                               
values to all projects.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:48:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if all states use the same numbers.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said he believes  they do  and said the  numbers are                                                               
from  the American  Association of  State Highway  Transportation                                                               
Organizations (AASHTO).                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:48:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON  asked what  ownership  the  state has  in                                                               
village roads and airports.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  answered the ownership  of roads is often  mixed and                                                               
varies from  village to village.   However, the  functional class                                                               
is determined regardless of ownership.   A road's primary purpose                                                               
determines its functional class.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:49:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER  asked  if   accidents  caused  by  driver                                                               
behavior are represented in the triangle.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said it  represents all accidents.   The  purpose of                                                               
the  triangle  is  to  illustrate  that  when  DOT&PF  designs  a                                                               
particular segment of  road, its engineers analyze  data from the                                                               
accidents that  occurred on  that road  that might  influence the                                                               
design.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:50:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I  was just  going to  say that  when you  asked us  to                                                                    
     prepare  this presentation  you had  four broad  topics                                                                    
     and they  are shown on  page 1 of  the slides.   We are                                                                    
     done  with  two  of  them.    We've  done  the  general                                                                    
     overview  and the  federal funding  rules.   We've done                                                                    
     the SHAKWAK  funding.   We are now  about to  start the                                                                    
     federal funding process as it  relates to state funding                                                                    
     and  then we'll  wrap up  with  the STIP,  but I  think                                                                    
     there's  been so  much  building going  on,  we can  go                                                                    
     fairly quickly from here forward.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:50:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     We're  at the  bottom of  page  12.   The slide  reads,                                                                    
     "Federal  Funds and  State Budget  Authority," and  I'm                                                                    
     going to  explain how they  relate and is there  a one-                                                                    
     to-one relationship  and I'll explain that  term in the                                                                    
     next slide here.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     At the top of page 13,  here I compare the two terms of                                                                    
     art,  the  federal  funds  themselves  and  then  their                                                                    
     presence in the  state budget.  You'll see  there are a                                                                    
     lot  of differences.   The  federal funds  come to  the                                                                    
     state by  a funding  type, the apportionment  type, and                                                                    
     we talked about apportionment  and all of the different                                                                    
     kinds  of apportionment:  bridge apportionment,  safety                                                                    
     apportionment,  National Highway  System apportionment.                                                                    
     On the  other hand, when  we write the budget  we write                                                                    
     it by  the name  of the  project so  we're now  - we're                                                                    
     already  sort  of using  two  different  systems.   The                                                                    
     budget  at the  state  level says  project  X, so  many                                                                    
     million  dollars, the  fund  source  is federal  funds.                                                                    
     It's already  - we're  not talking  in the  same terms.                                                                    
     We're not  talking about apportionment.   We're talking                                                                    
     about the name of a project and not the funding type.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  shelf life  for those  federal funds  is generally                                                                    
     one year.  An exception  might be earmarks and a couple                                                                    
     other categories but the general  shelf life of federal                                                                    
     funds is  one year, whereas  in the state  budget, when                                                                    
     we get  authority in  the state  budget to  use federal                                                                    
     funds,  that  is  ten  years and  in  some  cases  even                                                                    
     longer.   They say  you can  extend it  indefinitely if                                                                    
     you can show that you are still working.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:52:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     When  we  write  a  STIP with  federal  funds,  we  are                                                                    
     constrained  to  a dollar  level,  to  an estimated  or                                                                    
     predicted dollar  level.   In other  words, we  have to                                                                    
     write  the  STIP  to  a budget.    The  capital  budget                                                                    
     doesn't have that same constraint  on the federal side.                                                                    
     It certainly does  on the general fund side  but on the                                                                    
     federal side, there isn't a  firm budget and what often                                                                    
     happens is we  end up with more  federal authority than                                                                    
     we  will ever  have  federal dollars.    So your  state                                                                    
     budget doesn't  have this one-to-one  relationship and,                                                                    
     in fact, we might be  building a project next year that                                                                    
     is  relying  upon  state  authority  received  in  next                                                                    
     year's  budget or  received in  a prior  year's budget.                                                                    
     There  is  no  absolute  relationship to  the  year  of                                                                    
     appropriation  on  the  state  side  and  the  year  of                                                                    
     expenditure with the federal dollars.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:53:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The controlling documentation is  quite different.  The                                                                    
     STIP  controls the  federal side  and its  rules.   The                                                                    
     whole  state  budgeting  process,  the  capital  budget                                                                    
     process,  is  the  controlling document  on  the  state                                                                    
     ledger side.   How that  is amended is different.   The                                                                    
     STIP  amendment  is done  by  a  STIP amendment.    The                                                                    
     capital budget is done  through [Legislative Budget and                                                                    
     Audit]   LBA    in   the    interim   or    through   a                                                                    
     reappropriation, some type of legislative action.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     And then,  finally, the two branches  of government are                                                                    
     involved: the  executive branch on  the STIP  side, the                                                                    
     legislative branch on the capital  budget side.  Let me                                                                    
     just  talk about  this one-to-one  relationship because                                                                    
     over  the years  I get  asked this  question a  lot and                                                                    
     people  will say,  "Why don't  we just  have a  capital                                                                    
     budget that  is precisely  what you think  you're going                                                                    
     to spend on the STIP?"   It's a very simple and I think                                                                    
     a  concept that  people want  to  grab on  to and  feel                                                                    
     would be  a very good way  to control DOT, if  I may be                                                                    
     so bold.  I think it would  also be a very good way for                                                                    
     us to ensure  that we lose federal funding  in each and                                                                    
     every  year.   The federal  project process  invariably                                                                    
     has  projects  that   slip.    They  hit   a  delay  in                                                                    
     permitting.   They  hit a  delay  in the  environmental                                                                    
     process, the community process that  we go through, the                                                                    
     right-of-way  certification process,  and whenever  one                                                                    
     of  those  projects  gets   delayed,  we  accelerate  a                                                                    
     different  project to  ensure those  federal funds  are                                                                    
     not lost  because those federal  funds are use  or lose                                                                    
     if we don't  have another project in its place.   So we                                                                    
     need to  have enough authority  on the state  side that                                                                    
     we can move  projects around to not lose  them and this                                                                    
     happens  every  year   in  the  July-August  timeframe.                                                                    
     There  is a  mad dash  to figure  out what  can go  and                                                                    
     what's got  to be substituted  so that dollars  are not                                                                    
     lost.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:55:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN said  that is the main reason  for the frustration                                                               
of  his constituents  and  others -  anticipating  a project  but                                                               
having it  pushed back.   When that  occurs, he gets  phone calls                                                               
from people who think the project  has been pulled.  He asked how                                                               
to  relay to  the public  the reason  for the  delay and  whether                                                               
DOT&PF gets similar phone calls.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  agreed that is clearly  a problem.  He  was not sure                                                               
of a clear,  easy solution.  He stated that  as the summer season                                                               
approaches, everything gets compressed.   DOT&PF has to commit to                                                               
obligating the federal dollars by  August.  If DOT&PF cannot make                                                               
that  commitment, it  has to  plan  substitution projects,  which                                                               
creates a mad  dash to check right-of-way permits,  etcetera.  In                                                               
a perfect world,  DOT&PF would take time to  communicate its plan                                                               
to the  public but if  it tried to do  so by August,  the federal                                                               
dollars could be  lost.  He said if DOT&PF  loses the dollars, it                                                               
would  not be  a good  steward  of the  system or  of the  public                                                               
process.    He  repeated  that  he  does  not  have  an  eloquent                                                               
solution.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:57:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if DOT&PF chooses  substitute projects from                                                               
the $200 million of projects that are ready to go.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  DOT&PF usually  picks from  projects that  are                                                               
already in the STIP.  He explained:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     What  usually  is  happening  is you  have  a  list  of                                                                    
     projects   that  are   in  the   STIP.     Let's   just                                                                    
     hypothetically say  it's 20 projects.   Well there have                                                                    
     been cost  increases on  several of  them and  we don't                                                                    
     have enough money  now to do all 20.   We're only going                                                                    
     to be  able to  advance 16  of the 20.   So  what we're                                                                    
     really doing  is taking  that obligation  limit planned                                                                    
     for  four projects  and spreading  it across  the other                                                                    
     16.   So,  16 projects  in my  example are  proceeding.                                                                    
     Four projects  that were  in the STIP  are going  to be                                                                    
     delayed.   That's  essentially what  the give  and take                                                                    
     is.  Sometimes we're looking  for a new project to slip                                                                    
     in.  That's a little more rare.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:59:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN said  he thinks that is also the  cause of some of                                                               
the  Legislature's frustration.   He  commented that  legislators                                                               
know DOT&PF  needs some  "wiggle" room but  some people  think it                                                               
has too much.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  said if he  had an  idea of the  amount of                                                               
federal funds  the state would have  to forego to get  control of                                                               
DOT&PF, he might  agree to do so but he  doesn't think the trade-                                                               
off is that exact.  He  then said Mr. Ottesen's document says the                                                               
executive  branch  decides on  the  federal  funds in  the  state                                                               
budget. He asked if that means every STIP amendment is approved.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said  the state  executive  branch,  i.e.,  DOT&PF,                                                               
prepares  that amendment.   The  commissioner submits  it to  the                                                               
federal agency that actually approves  it.  That decision is made                                                               
internally.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:00:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if the  STIP amendments are routinely                                                               
approved.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  the  approval  rate is  100  percent with  the                                                               
caveat that  a STIP  amendment could be  approved except  for the                                                               
Fairbanks metropolitan  area because of  air quality issues.   He                                                               
furthered:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     They  have  some  extra  work   to  go  through  called                                                                    
     conformity  and if  their work  was not  complete, they                                                                    
     can  approve the  STIP...with geographic  exceptions so                                                                    
       we would get a 95 percent approved STIP and two or                                                                       
        three weeks later the other piece of it would be                                                                        
     approved later on.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    NEUMAN    said    people    want    transparent                                                               
accountability in  government.   He stated, "I  want to  see some                                                               
correlation  of where  our state  funds are  and what's  there as                                                               
compared to  what may be  there in  federal and how  those monies                                                               
are being  spent."  He  asked if Mr. Ottesen's  document provides                                                               
that information.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN indicated that DOT&PF's  budget is partly federal but                                                               
state  funds  have also  been  appropriated  to projects.    That                                                               
amount  has been  sizeable in  the  last few  years, hundreds  of                                                               
millions.  Those  projects do not show up in  the STIP; they fall                                                               
under another process.  He  said those projects could be included                                                               
[in the  STIP] for the public  to see, but DOT&PF  is not legally                                                               
required to do that and the  workload that would require would be                                                               
huge.    He  noted  others have  advocated  that  DOT&PF  include                                                               
federal projects  in the STIP for  the sake of transparency.   He                                                               
does not oppose  doing that but is concerned  about the workload.                                                               
He  stated  that on  scored  community  projects, a  project  not                                                               
completed in '06 would be first to go in '07.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:04:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  told  members  last  year DOT&PF  had  to  let  two                                                               
Southeast projects slip; buses for  Ketchikan and Juneau.  DOT&PF                                                               
needed those dollars for a  different project so that the project                                                               
could go to bid.  He  told the Southeast Region those buses would                                                               
be funded first next year.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:05:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  asserted that  he has heard  comments that                                                               
DOT&PF seems to be  out of control in that it  has a large budget                                                               
but  no one  seems to  "know where  it's at."   He  asked how  he                                                               
should respond to those comments  and repeated that he would like                                                               
to see a more transparent process.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said one  possibility  is  to  make sure  that  all                                                               
projects are  located in  the same  place so  that people  do not                                                               
have to  look for information in  separate silos.  He  noted that                                                               
to  find a  general  fund project,  one would  have  to find  the                                                               
project  name by  region on  the website.   Federal  projects are                                                               
found  under the  STIP.   He acknowledged  that is  not the  most                                                               
transparent of  systems but is  the system DOT&PF has  right now.                                                               
The second issue of how to  make the decision making process more                                                               
transparent  is difficult  because of  the timing  problem during                                                               
the  summer.   He said  he is  asking regional  planners to  tell                                                               
communities  that projects  are delayed  and why  and that  those                                                               
projects  will be  given priority  the  next year.   He  reminded                                                               
members that federal  funds will lapse if DOT&PF spends  60 or 90                                                               
days on a public process during the summer.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:07:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  asked Mr. Ottesen  if he is  familiar with                                                               
the Eureka to Rampart Road.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said he is.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:07:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON said that 30  mile road has two bridges and                                                               
about  14 miles  of that  road have  been completed  although the                                                               
project has been ongoing for 30 or  40 years.  He said he did not                                                               
see  that  project  in  the  STIP  and  asked  when  it  will  be                                                               
completed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  told Representative  Salmon the  Eureka-Rampart road                                                               
is part of the Alaska Highway  System, which is comprised of 1500                                                               
miles.  That  system only gets about $16 to  $18 million per year                                                               
statewide  so it  is grossly  under funded.   All  Alaska Highway                                                               
System projects have been waiting to be completed for years.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:09:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  asked for  written information  about that                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  he would have regional staff  provide a report.                                                               
He  pointed out  the regional  director would  be addressing  the                                                               
committee in two weeks and can also answer that question.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:09:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN noted  he invited the three  regional directors to                                                               
address the committee.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked the number of  projects that either                                                               
slip each year  or from which funding is taken  to finish another                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said the number is  in the 10s depending on the year,                                                               
and could be  20 to 30 in a bad  year.  He said the  cause is not                                                               
only the high cost, it is  also the erratic nature of the federal                                                               
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:11:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked if DOT&PF has  a public information                                                               
officer.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said it does.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     So we're talking 30 projects  that slip. ...Having been                                                                    
     press  secretary for  this body,  I can  tell you  that                                                                    
     I've  done 30  press  releases in  a day.    I find  it                                                                    
     appalling  that...if   a  public   information  officer                                                                    
     cannot   handle   30   information   distributions   to                                                                    
     communities, I've  got some serious concerns.   What do                                                                    
     they do?                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:11:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said DOT&PF uses  a different technique.  Staff makes                                                               
personal phone calls to people in the community.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  questioned  whether that  technique  has                                                               
been working.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN replied,  "The question  is has  it been  working at                                                               
every level  of the community.   The  city council may  know, the                                                               
city manager may  know.  I'm not sure every  person in the coffee                                                               
shop knows."  He acknowledged the  value of using a press release                                                               
and noted the public information  officer has not yet worked over                                                               
an entire STIP cycle.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON commented  that he  receives phone  calls                                                               
from the  people in the coffee  shops.  He said  he'd much rather                                                               
they be notified because the mayor will find out elsewhere.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said he appreciated that comment.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:12:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN indicated that  Mr. Ottesen referred to $16                                                               
to  $18  million  in  annual funds  appropriated  to  the  Alaska                                                               
Highway System and asked if those funds are federal dollars.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN replied they are  federal dollars plus the associated                                                               
match; usually a 90:10 ratio.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:13:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  questioned why more money  isn't available                                                               
for that program.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN explained  that DOT&PF uses a  formula that allocates                                                               
a  pie.   The  formula  is partly  in  regulation  and partly  in                                                               
statute.  DOT&PF can change  the regulation but not the statutory                                                               
requirement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:14:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  directed members to copies  of the pie chart  in the                                                               
committee  packet  that  categorizes  DOT&PF's  flexible  federal                                                               
dollars:  48  percent  of  those dollars  goes  to  the  National                                                               
Highway  System; 8  percent goes  to the  Alaska Highway  System,                                                               
which has  about 1,500  centerline miles; 2  percent goes  to the                                                               
TRAC  program, which  covers trails  and recreational  access; 39                                                               
percent  goes  to community  class  roads;  and the  remaining  3                                                               
percent is left  to provide "a little wiggle room."   He repeated                                                               
the Alaska Highway  System is the least well  funded; it consists                                                               
of state  level highways that  connect communities.   The federal                                                               
government does not consider them to  be at the level of National                                                               
Highway System roads.   He said if one was  to divide the funding                                                               
stream by  the number of road  miles and assumed an  average cost                                                               
of $1  million per mile, a  new project could be  built every 120                                                               
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:16:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if  the federal government determines                                                               
the amount of Alaska Highway funding.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  the state determines the  Alaska Highway System                                                               
funding.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked  if that  state-level  decision  is                                                               
based on road traffic.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  the decision  is made  using a  combination of                                                               
factors.   However, the 1991  decision that  determined community                                                               
roads to be  eligible for federal funding tripled  the miles that                                                               
were eligible but  reduced the number of miles  allowed for high-                                                               
level roads.   He pointed out  that DOT&PF is facing  the dilemma                                                               
that when everything is a priority, nothing is a priority.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:17:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     If  the  Alaska Highway  System  is  basically ...  big                                                                    
     roads that  don't fit the  National Highway  System ...                                                                    
     and  because  we've got  it  divided  by category,  I'm                                                                    
     going  to  make  the  assumption that  these  are  more                                                                    
     likely  to be  big  rural roads  than  big urban  roads                                                                    
     because  the big  urban  roads are  more  likely to  be                                                                    
     National  Highway System  roads.    Then, because  this                                                                    
     information  is divided  by category  as opposed  to by                                                                    
     location, it  is impossible  for [legislators]  to make                                                                    
     any sort  of a reasoned  judgment about  the allocation                                                                    
     by area, i.e., if there  are people living someplace in                                                                    
     Alaska because  they have the misfortune  to fall under                                                                    
     the  Alaska   Highway  System   as  opposed   to  under                                                                    
     community roads  or National Highway System  roads that                                                                    
     their roads are never going  to get finished. Right?  I                                                                    
     mean how do we get  to grips as policymakers with those                                                                    
     kinds   of   questions   considering   the   way   this                                                                    
     information is presented to us?                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  DOT&PF is  trying to  communicate through  the                                                               
2030 document and legislative presentations  the harsh reality of                                                               
the state's list of transportation  needs versus limited funding.                                                               
He said  the situation  is a  daily dilemma for  him.   The facts                                                               
that federal  funding rules have  changed, costs  have increased,                                                               
and DOT&PF has no second or  third source of funding have created                                                               
a situation  where very  deserving projects  go wanting.   DOT&PF                                                               
can, according to its regulations,  spend National Highway System                                                               
funds on  Alaska Highway System  projects.  The  National Highway                                                               
System  is where  the economy  is taking  place because  of heavy                                                               
commuter and freight  traffic so DOT&PF is  cautious about taking                                                               
funds from those projects.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:19:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asserted that although he  understands the                                                               
difficulty of  decision making with  limited funds, his  point is                                                               
that he  is not sure he  can identify what is  getting funded and                                                               
what is  not, because he is  unable to identify which  roads fall                                                               
under which  category.  He  needs to  be able to  locate specific                                                               
projects  on a  map rather  than try  to locate  them by  funding                                                               
source.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said those  maps are available  on the  Internet and                                                               
that he would provide copies to the committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:21:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN maintained the  problem is that DOT&PF does                                                               
not manage it  that way.  He furthered, "You're  managing it this                                                               
way and it seems to me that  that's where a lot of the difficulty                                                               
arises, is if  you're managing it by category  when it's actually                                                               
built by location."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said  he  was not  sure  that  characterization  is                                                               
correct.  DOT&PF's system has  evolved over time.  Past give-and-                                                               
take  interactions with  the legislature  created  the terms  and                                                               
some were codified in regulation and statute.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said he understood.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:22:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  noted she represents District  17, the                                                               
Eagle River  area.  That district  has waited more than  10 years                                                               
for a road  [upgrade] on a road that 35,000  people use every day                                                               
so  the problem  is not  unique  to rural  Alaska.   The list  of                                                               
projects  is prioritized  according  to lane  miles, traffic  and                                                               
other  specific  criteria.   The  regional  offices  can  provide                                                               
layouts for the regions.  She explained:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     How it  works, as I  understand it from  my community's                                                                    
     perspective  is  small  community   members,  5  or  10                                                                    
     people, get together and they  form a list of projects.                                                                    
     In  my community  it's labeled  the community  council.                                                                    
     In a tribal  entity it would be a tribal  entity.  They                                                                    
     forward  those   projects  through  to  the   mayor  or                                                                    
     whatever   the  local   government   is.     They   are                                                                    
     prioritized there  throughout their whole  community so                                                                    
     Eagle River and the road  that I'm talking about had to                                                                    
     go to  the big  city, Anchorage,  stand before  the big                                                                    
     city and  say how our  project and the miles  that were                                                                    
     valuable to  our community lined  up against  the needs                                                                    
     of C Street that was  sort of a larger corridor, wider,                                                                    
     and they  create a  master plan  inside of  that tribal                                                                    
     government or a municipality that goes forward.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     They fund  that many different  ways.  In  my community                                                                    
     we  have a  road service  area board  that we  actually                                                                    
     handle and tax  ourselves to go out  and help implement                                                                    
     projects.  The  city of Anchorage goes  to their voters                                                                    
     and they choose a different path.   So there are all of                                                                    
     these  different paths  that we  work with  DOT on  and                                                                    
     they   advise   us   and   we    do   a   transfer   of                                                                    
     responsibilities in  different things to  upgrade those                                                                    
     roads.   But  please don't  let the  public think  that                                                                    
     there  isn't   a  well  thought-out   process  because,                                                                    
     believe me,  I banged  my head on  this process  for 10                                                                    
     years  trying to  get around  it to  see if  there were                                                                    
     different ways that  we could push or  pull.  Certainly                                                                    
     we are  the legislative body  that should say  and feel                                                                    
     like we want  to be involved in the  process of picking                                                                    
     and choosing but I warned  this committee early on that                                                                    
     you have to be able to  give it a statewide approach in                                                                    
     your look and  your application and not  an Eagle River                                                                    
     approach to a statewide plan.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     So I believe what Mr.  Ottesen has been telling us, and                                                                    
     he has  been trying  to explain to  us at  our request,                                                                    
     was  the  federal  component  of  this  project.    The                                                                    
     department has  much bigger projects  that have  it all                                                                    
     lined up  and he's referred  you to the computer  or on                                                                    
     to the website that has  those master plans by inch and                                                                    
     miles,  by  road by  miles,  and  we've asked  them  to                                                                    
     explain  this component.   That's  not the  entirety of                                                                    
     DOT.   It's  not the  entirety of  the Municipality  of                                                                    
     Anchorage  or all  of the  resources that  we bring  to                                                                    
     bear  to  bring projects  so  that  rubber can  meet  a                                                                    
     surface that people can travel  on or that water can be                                                                    
     traversed off of our ferry system.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I  know  that  [we  want]  to  get  to  the  bottom  of                                                                    
     something here but  the people that work  for the State                                                                    
     of  Alaska in  all of  our departments  do great  work.                                                                    
     They should  be very proud  to be  able to bring  to us                                                                    
     from  every   department,  including  DOT,  a   set  of                                                                    
     criteria and open  themselves up to sit in  front of us                                                                    
     and  have us  keep  asking what,  why,  where, how  and                                                                    
     when.   Please  know that  they have  systems in  place                                                                    
     that you  can challenge that  hold water per se.   They                                                                    
     are good systems.   I've been - don't get  me wrong but                                                                    
     bureaucracy is a nightmare.   You can't breathe through                                                                    
     it.  I understand that  but we have good guides sitting                                                                    
     in front of us.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     I'll get off  my soapbox but it took me  a long time to                                                                    
     get  around the  federal component  of the  process and                                                                    
     Representative Salmon,  I'm with  you.  After  20 years                                                                    
     on my road,  10 we've been in the plan.   We've been on                                                                    
     the entire  erosion quantity  of this  for close  to 20                                                                    
     years in trying  to get one segment, I  think it's nine                                                                    
     miles, done up to our park system and I understand.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Anyway I want  to thank you and your team  for all that                                                                    
     you  do  and  I  know   that  the  federal  process  is                                                                    
     cumbersome  and  I  appreciate   you  offering  to  the                                                                    
     federal delegation ways and means  that they could make                                                                    
     our lives  easier and I  just would go on  record again                                                                    
     to say that I do support  the governor and looking at a                                                                    
     transportation fund  so that we can,  as Representative                                                                    
     Doogan  and Representative  Salmon have  said, we  have                                                                    
     roads that  need to have  maintenance done and  we have                                                                    
     to  look at  a statewide  approach to  accomplish those                                                                    
     things.  Thank you Mr. Chairman.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:27:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON referred  to the chart and asked  if the 2                                                               
percent for  the TRAC transferred  to the  Anchorage Metropolitan                                                               
Area  Transportation Solutions  (AMATS) is  a mandated  amount or                                                               
the state match and how it filters down to the small chart.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said AMATS has a  great deal of latitude  with those                                                               
funds once it receives them.   The Legislature passed legislation                                                               
in an attempt  to control the amount of money  spent on TRAC-like                                                               
projects.  That legislation was  litigated in the Superior Court.                                                               
He  said  he believes  the  amount  actually  spent is  about  10                                                               
percent.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:28:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN directed members to the bottom of page 13.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:29:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Let's turn  to the top  of page 14  if we may  and just                                                                    
     talk about the  Alaska STIP and what is coming  up.  At                                                                    
     this point in my presentation,  when I was making it, I                                                                    
     really questioned  which way I  should take you.  ... I                                                                    
     showed  you  the  criteria  and  how  we  use  criteria                                                                    
     because we do use a lot  of criteria and there are very                                                                    
     elaborate  nomination packages  that  answer dozens  of                                                                    
     questions  about each  project.    The regional  staffs                                                                    
     work  very hard  with photographs  and maps  and write-                                                                    
     ups.   We answer  questions about economic  purpose and                                                                    
     safety and  a whole series  of benefits and  whether or                                                                    
     not the  community is  behind the  project.   A project                                                                    
     gets  scored,  at least  in  the  CTP category.    That                                                                    
     scoring  then is  followed as  closely as  we know  how                                                                    
     when we  prioritize them  and put  them into  the STIP.                                                                    
     To me the  real hiccup in our system right  now is that                                                                    
     we're just  not moving fast  enough.  We've got  a good                                                                    
     list of  projects.   People want  them but  the dollars                                                                    
     for a series of reasons are  just not coming at us fast                                                                    
     enough.  We  can only build what  we're appropriated to                                                                    
     build to.  That's been our  dilemma.  We've gone from a                                                                    
     system,  low inflation,  lots of  federal dollars,  not                                                                    
     too many strings, delivering good  projects and all has                                                                    
     changed in  about four  years and  those three  or four                                                                    
     years have  been nightmarish.  High  inflation, lots of                                                                    
     changes   at  the   federal   level,   and  it's   been                                                                    
     frustrating.   It's frustrating for  staff, I  can tell                                                                    
     you  that.   It's  frustrating for  communities.   It's                                                                    
     frustrating  for  people sitting  in  your  jobs and  I                                                                    
     think if  I can  give you  one takeaway  message, we're                                                                    
     not going to solve this  problem by re-dividing the pie                                                                    
     somehow.  That's not going  to solve it. The pie simply                                                                    
     has to get bigger.  That's my takeaway.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN said he thinks the committee understands that                                                                    
point.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:31:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     So if I  can talk about '08 and '09  Mr. Chairman, those are                                                               
     kind of  the immediate  years of the  STIP.   You've already                                                               
     heard a  lot of this and  we can go fairly  quickly and then                                                               
     just  for an  eye  toward  what will  happen  in 2010  after                                                               
     reauthorization.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The  STIP  is essentially  a  federal  rule created,  I                                                                    
     guess  in part,  because DOTs  were thought  to be  not                                                                    
     disclosing their  plans to the  public.  So it  came in                                                                    
     1991.   They were  told to  start writing  these STIPs.                                                                    
     Do it  in a public  process that would tell  the public                                                                    
     what, why, when and who and  where are we going to do a                                                                    
     project.    So they  mandated  that  we write  a  STIP.                                                                    
     They've written rules now twice  - the process rules in                                                                    
     '93 and then again now in  2007.  It's all about giving                                                                    
     the  chance for  the  public to  understand what  we're                                                                    
     doing and to understand when things change.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The  two  over-arching  authorities  to  our  STIP  are                                                                    
     Federal   Highways  and   Federal  Transit.     Federal                                                                    
     Highways is  located here in  Juneau.   Federal Transit                                                                    
     is located in  the Seattle office of Region  10.  Those                                                                    
     two offices  have to review  every STIP and  every STIP                                                                    
     amendment  and approve  those documents  before we  can                                                                    
     proceed to  actually embark upon building  the projects                                                                    
     that are in  the STIP or doing any other  work for that                                                                    
     matter, be it design work or right-of-way work.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:32:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     So, on  the top of  page 15, this you've  already heard                                                                    
     me  talk about.   We've  got these  rescissions coming.                                                                    
     They're  going  to  require  that   the  2008  STIP  be                                                                    
     modified through  an amendment and that  amendment will                                                                    
     be we're  waiting on the 2030  plan to be done  so that                                                                    
     we can  start the STIP  amendment and then we  do that.                                                                    
     It takes  so many  days and then  we can  begin working                                                                    
     those projects.  That's just  - at this point it's just                                                                    
     a fact of life that we have to accommodate.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:32:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     There is another  issue in 2009.   When Congress passed                                                                    
     the bill known as  SAFETEA-LU...in order to balance the                                                                    
     bill  and balance  the budget,  they built  in what  is                                                                    
     known as a  rescission in the 2009 year.   It's written                                                                    
     into  law.    The   Alaska  portion  of  that  national                                                                    
     rescission is  $55 million so  that means that  we have                                                                    
     to be ready  to give.  When they give  us that money in                                                                    
     2009, we're  going to  have to give  $55 million  of it                                                                    
     back.    So  we  have  to  write  the  STIP  with  that                                                                    
     rescission in mind because it is  law.  The only way it                                                                    
     can be undone is if  Congress changes that law so there                                                                    
     is no other mechanism available for that to change.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:33:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     A second issue  with the Highway Trust Fund  is that it                                                                    
     is  simply  not  generating  revenue as  fast  as  they                                                                    
     thought it  would so you  also have a problem  with its                                                                    
     solvency.   That  number has  very much  been in  flux.                                                                    
     When I wrote this presentation  about two weeks ago, we                                                                    
     were told that the insolvency  was going to be about $5                                                                    
     billion  but would  require that  they cut  spending by                                                                    
     about $18 billion.   That was the number  I was getting                                                                    
     and,  in fact,  I even  got that  number from  a source                                                                    
     this month, in  the month of January.   Since I've come                                                                    
     back from my meeting back  East, that number has gotten                                                                    
     smaller.    Now  it's  going to  be  a  billion  dollar                                                                    
     shortfall in  that trust  fund and  it's going  to slow                                                                    
     down spending  $4 to  $5 billion.     I can  explain if                                                                    
     you'd like  why a  $1 billion dollar  shortfall results                                                                    
     in a slowdown of spending  four times larger but it's a                                                                    
     pretty complex  answer. I  don't think  it gives  you a                                                                    
     lot of real  meaning to understand it.   Just know that                                                                    
     the   program  will   have  to   be  made   smaller  to                                                                    
     accommodate that.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     So we have two 2009  issues that we have to accommodate                                                                    
     when we  write a fiscally  constrained STIP.   There is                                                                    
     still  a possibility  that Congress  could  fix one  or                                                                    
     both of those  and so we have to keep  that in our mind                                                                    
     too, that we may have a  STIP that has to be amended at                                                                    
     a  later date  to deal  with extra  money if  there are                                                                    
     fixes coming.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:34:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked, "With the $55 million in rescission                                                                
funds, and that's out of a total of how much expected to - an                                                                   
estimate?"                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN answered about $200 million.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:35:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN   asked,  regarding  the   immediate  STIP                                                               
amendments necessary  to avoid loss  of funds, whether  that loss                                                               
would be in addition to the $55 million.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN affirmed that is correct.   He said DOT&PF has a 2008                                                               
problem, a different rescission.   The 2009 rescission is planned                                                               
and  written   into  the  SAFETEA-LU   legislation.     The  2009                                                               
rescission was done in an appropriation bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:35:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked if the  $55 million is Alaska's share                                                               
of the $9 billion.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  yes.   He  added it  is either  a $55  million                                                               
rescission  or  an $86  million  rescission,  depending on  which                                                               
interpretation of the law is applied.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:36:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked when DOT&PF  sends its STIP to  the Federal                                                               
Highway  Agency,  whether  the  process to  adopt  amendments  is                                                               
completely internal and closed or  whether the process allows for                                                               
input from the public or the state.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN stated the process  is completely internal to the two                                                               
agencies.  He  reminded members that DOT&PF had  a 45-day comment                                                               
period before it was sent to the federal agencies.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:37:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Okay  - so  the bottom  of  15.   We've already  talked                                                                    
     about this  one.   This is  the 2008  fund notices.   I                                                                    
     talked  about it  on that  slide last  week or  Tuesday                                                                    
     where we  got notices that  change the kind  of funding                                                                    
     we're going  to get for this  year.  I think  we really                                                                    
     don't need  to belabor  that unless  you'd like  but it                                                                    
     means   we're  going   to  do   less  in   the  highway                                                                    
     reconstruction category and those  dollars will have to                                                                    
     be shifted to spend on highway bridge and safety work.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     At  the top  of  16, we  talked  about the  rescission.                                                                    
     It's either $55 or $86  million.  The lawyers are going                                                                    
     to, I  guess, ultimately decide  that back in D.C.   It                                                                    
     obviously  -  it  actually  is   going  to  create  the                                                                    
     possibility  where  we're going  to  end  up with  more                                                                    
     obligation   limit   than   we   are   when   we   have                                                                    
     apportionment   because   what  we're   rescinding   is                                                                    
     apportionment.   I don't  know that  it really  makes a                                                                    
     difference.  You can't spend  the federal dollars.  You                                                                    
     can't spend  them but  we've never  been in  a position                                                                    
     before  where we  had no  spare  apportionment and  had                                                                    
     more obligation  limit.  Historically  obligation limit                                                                    
     has always  been the controlling  factor.  So  that may                                                                    
     be  a technical  problem and  not worth  your attention                                                                    
     but it does,  from our standpoint. It's  like gee, this                                                                    
     has never happened before.   It's just a new wrinkle to                                                                    
     our business.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:38:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  commented   one  apportionment  plus  one                                                               
obligation equals $1 dollar.   He asked whether those dollars can                                                               
be moved to other jobs.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said  DOT&PF  can  move  obligation  limit  to  any                                                               
apportionment, but if  DOT&PF has to rescind them  to the federal                                                               
authorities, DOT&PF will end up  with an obligation limit that it                                                               
cannot  match  to apportionment.    DOT&PF  will  be short  in  a                                                               
different  way.     In  the  past,  DOT&PF   always  had  surplus                                                               
apportionment but  an inadequate  obligation limit.   DOT&PF sees                                                               
itself with the opposite circumstance in 2009.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:39:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked if [those  funds] can be recovered in                                                               
any way.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  Congress will  have to  change the  law.    He                                                               
indicated  that  historically,  changes  have  been  made  so  he                                                               
expects Congress to do something.   He cautioned that the country                                                               
is  in a  presidential election  cycle and  a new  administration                                                               
will be coming on board.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:40:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  if  the state  can  do anything  to                                                               
facilitate those changes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  suggested  adopting  a  resolution  of  support  to                                                               
address  the   issue.    He   said  other  states   have  adopted                                                               
resolutions.  This is a  nationwide problem nationwide because it                                                               
takes  projects off  the streets  that would  have put  people to                                                               
work.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:40:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER asked Mr.  Ottesen if he said apportionment                                                               
is a promise.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said he did.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER  expressed  concern,   "They  give  you  a                                                               
promise.  With  a promise they are going to  take back a promise.                                                               
Just explain  to me  a little  bit about  what's going  on there.                                                               
I'm missing something."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN stated the state needs  that promise to be matched up                                                               
with  a dollar  of  obligation  limit to  be  able  to spend  the                                                               
obligation  limit.    He  likened the  formula  to  epoxy,  which                                                               
requires mixing two parts to make it useable.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER  asked  whether  political  good  will  is                                                               
driving the federal agency to make promises.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said  he  believes  the  reason  for  the  built-in                                                               
rescission  in 2009  is that  it was  written into  law in  2005.                                                               
Both  the  House and  Senate  wanted  much bigger  transportation                                                               
bills  at that  time.   Representative  Don Young,  chair of  the                                                               
House Transportation Committee  at that time, wanted  the bill to                                                               
include $375 billion.  The  President threatened to veto the bill                                                               
if it exceeded  $275 billion.  He recalled the  Senate amount was                                                               
[$320]  billion.   The final  bill contained  a little  more than                                                               
$275  billion.   To raise  revenue without  raising taxes,  a few                                                               
things  were  "tweaked,"  one   being  assumptions  about  future                                                               
revenue flow.   If  the revenue flow  assumption is  changed, the                                                               
model appears  to have more  money.   The bill also  included the                                                               
rescission feature to balance everything in four years.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:42:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON  referred to  page  7,  and asked  whether                                                               
DOT&PF has  to follow all  of the regulations for  federal grants                                                               
or  whether they  also  apply  to state  money.    He also  asked                                                               
whether the regulations apply to projects built on state land.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said many  of the laws  represented on  the document                                                               
would  apply regardless  of funding  source but  some of  them do                                                               
not.   For example,  wetlands laws,  the Endangered  Species Act,                                                               
and the  Clean Air  Act are  not affected  by funding  source but                                                               
other laws are only applicable to federal funds.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:43:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SALMON asked  whether the  same applies  to state                                                               
money.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN replied  state  money  is easier  to  use  but if  a                                                               
federal action is required, such  as a Corps of Engineers permit,                                                               
the National  Environmental Policy  Act (NEPA) must  be followed.                                                               
If no federal action is  required, DOT&PF could build the project                                                               
without a  NEPA document.   He said it  depends on the  impact on                                                               
water, land and animals.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:44:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked Mr.  Ottesen to put  the information                                                               
on rescissions into  a timeline.  He asked when,  during the STIP                                                               
process, DOT&PF finds  out which number [the $55  or $86 million]                                                               
it will have to account for in the STIP itself.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said he could not  answer that question for a year or                                                               
more.  The department is writing those numbers this week.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DOOGAN  asked   how  DOT&PF   deals  with   that                                                               
situation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said DOT&PF makes estimates and judgments.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  if DOT&PF  writes the  STIP to  the                                                               
worst case scenario.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said DOT&PF  writes it to  the most  likely scenario                                                               
and is prepared to make adjustments as time goes on.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:45:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     We've  talked  about  the Trust  Fund  balance  at  the                                                                    
     bottom of  16.  There really  isn't - I think  this one                                                                    
     gets  solved.   This  one they  can  solve and  there's                                                                    
     actually a bill in Congress  that will solve this Trust                                                                    
     Fund  balance problem.   I  think the  rescission is  a                                                                    
     bigger fear.   That's going to  be harder to fix.   But                                                                    
     let me say this.   They'll fix it for a  year.  The fix                                                                    
     is not  going to have any  permanency to it.   It's not                                                                    
     like  a new  tax  that raises  new  revenue year  after                                                                    
     year.  They're going to  move some money around between                                                                    
     some accounts and fix it.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     So we  deal in  a world where  federal funding  is very                                                                    
     fluid,  very  dynamic with  lots  of  unknowns to  deal                                                                    
     with.    We also  deal with a  world where the  cost of                                                                    
     increases on  projects has been  pretty dramatic.   You                                                                    
     also have  scope creep  where we  start with  a project                                                                    
     that is  very simple  and it ends  up very  complex for                                                                    
     lots  of reasons.    All that  makes  writing the  STIP                                                                    
     incredibly difficult.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     ... So,  on the bottom  of 17 the major  amendment that                                                                    
     we're writing  right now is  focused on - it  will come                                                                    
     out here  as soon as  the 2030 plan  is done.   My STIP                                                                    
     author is  sitting behind  me.  It's  his job  to write                                                                    
     that.   He's not going  to get  much spare time  on the                                                                    
     weekends, I can  tell you.  We will then  also, as soon                                                                    
     as  that's done,  have to  write a  STIP for  the 2009,                                                                    
     2012 cycle.   That may be even harder  to write because                                                                    
     now  we're writing  about three  years for  which we'll                                                                    
     have  no  knowledge   until  reauthorization  is  over.                                                                    
     Reauthorization,  as  I'm  about to  show  you,  offers                                                                    
     several more degrees of variables  that we have to cope                                                                    
     with.  So  we've got a STIP amendment  coming that will                                                                    
     cover 2008, 2009 and then  our STIPs usually overlap so                                                                    
     we  have a  new STIP,  a complete  rewrite of  the STIP                                                                    
     that will take place that covers 2009 to 2012.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Federal law  has now changed  the rule on how  long the                                                                    
     STIP covers.   It used  to be three years.   SAFETEA-LU                                                                    
     changed that to four years.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:47:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Slide 18  talks a  little bit  about earmarks  and what                                                                    
     earmarks  have  done  to  the STIP  and  to  the  whole                                                                    
     process.   At the time  SAFETEA-LU passed, there  was a                                                                    
     billion  dollars  in earmarks  to  Alaska.   They  were                                                                    
     authorized over all five years...you  would not get the                                                                    
     funding  for any  given earmark  until  the fifth  year                                                                    
     typically  so  you had  to  wait  for an  increment  of                                                                    
     funding in each and every year, 2008, 2009, etcetera.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     People tend  to gravitate  to the  two bridges  when we                                                                    
     talk about earmarks but the  two bridges only represent                                                                    
     less  than 40  percent  of the  total  earmarks in  the                                                                    
     state.   There were a  great many other earmarks.   One                                                                    
     of the consequences of this  is the deductive earmarks,                                                                    
     and I believe  you got a copy of the  deductive part of                                                                    
     the  list;   diverted  funds  to  what   were  normally                                                                    
     ineligible needs.   Some of the earmarks  did.  Parking                                                                    
     garages,  port work,  shipyard work  are  the kinds  of                                                                    
     categories  that   historically  would  not   be  using                                                                    
     federal  dollars out  of  the transportation  programs.                                                                    
     These  are  dollars  that   came  from  drivers  across                                                                    
     America to  rebuild the  road system  and now  they are                                                                    
     going to  these other  modes.  I'm  not trying  to cast                                                                    
     any  aspersions on  the needs  for those  projects, I'm                                                                    
     just trying  to point out  that when you have  a fairly                                                                    
     limited pot  of money that's  barely doing its  job and                                                                    
     you  shrink   it  further,  there's   going  to   be  a                                                                    
     consequence.     I   think  we're   all  feeling   that                                                                    
     consequence.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:49:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     One of the  other consequences of many  of the earmarks                                                                    
     is  they were  just  a  small down  payment  on a  much                                                                    
     bigger cost project.  We've  had earmarks that are less                                                                    
     than 5  percent of the total  cost of the project.   So                                                                    
     that begs the question where  does the other 95 percent                                                                    
     come  from.   Some  people would  say  the STIP  should                                                                    
     deliver the  other 95  percent.   Some people  will say                                                                    
     well future earmarks will fill  that out.  Really there                                                                    
     is no  answer but it's  very hard  for us to  just stop                                                                    
     doing the core needs with  the few STIP dollars that we                                                                    
     have  left to  make those  earmarks whole  so that's  a                                                                    
     very difficult decision and I'm  not sure that it would                                                                    
     be in  the best overall  interest to  - I can  give you                                                                    
     lots of examples  of this.  Chignik  Road, for example,                                                                    
     got a little  bit of money to do a  very expensive road                                                                    
     project.  It  would take another $40 or  $50 million of                                                                    
     diversion and  where do  you divert  from?   What other                                                                    
     project stands down  to make that project  whole?  That                                                                    
     would be just  one way of looking at it.   And so we're                                                                    
      torn.  We have - not to say it isn't a good project,                                                                      
      we just simply don't have enough money to go around                                                                       
     the state.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:50:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN expressed concern  that the state is liable                                                               
for incomplete earmarked projects as  that could cost the state a                                                               
lot of money.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  how  much money  would be  involved                                                               
right now if the earmarked projects could not be finished.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  DOT&PF  has adopted  a  draft earmark  policy,                                                               
which only handles  12 or more earmarks.  That  list could amount                                                               
to  one-half billion  or more.   He  did not  think the  state is                                                               
facing  that risk  because DOT&PF  is not  proceeding with  those                                                               
earmarks until the full funding path is evident.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:51:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  cautioned  if   the  legislature  is  not                                                               
careful  with  its  appropriations,  the  earmarks  could  become                                                               
problematic.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is the risk  DOT&PF is trying to avoid.  He                                                               
pointed out that under the  new federal rules, projects cannot be                                                               
put  in the  STIP  unless  full funding  will  be available  when                                                               
needed.    The  department  cannot be  that  reckless  under  the                                                               
federal rules.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:51:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DOOGAN  questioned   whether   a  fully   funded                                                               
earmarked project  would be done  in increments over  a five-year                                                               
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked if  five  years'  worth of  funding                                                               
would be necessary for a project to be included in the STIP.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is a separate issue.  He furthered:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     We can see  that funding.  We can say  it's coming and,                                                                    
     in fact,  we have used  that tool  I talked about  in a                                                                    
     previous session, advanced  construction, in some cases                                                                    
     to build  projects that we  know have enough  money and                                                                    
     we'll just wait  for the appropriations to  come in and                                                                    
     ensure  that  the  state funds  are  reimbursed.    But                                                                    
     that's just one way that we've done that.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:52:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  how DOT&PF  would be  sure it  will                                                               
receive five years of funding for an earmark.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  explained  that earmarks  fall  into  two  classes.                                                               
Authorization earmarks  are written  into an  authorization bill.                                                               
Funding  for  those  projects   come  automatically  every  year.                                                               
Appropriation earmarks  depend upon who  has the best  ability to                                                               
write them.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  an authorization is  more likely                                                               
to get into the STIP.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded, "Exactly."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:53:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked,  regarding the  earmark  for  the                                                               
bridge to  Gravina Island,  how the state  could take  that money                                                               
and spend it on other projects.  He continued:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     ...  where other  earmarks, you're  saying if  we don't                                                                    
     finish  or complete  then we've  already spent  I think                                                                    
     you  said $55  million on  access roads  and stuff  for                                                                    
     that bridge that  we may be in jeopardy of  losing.  So                                                                    
     how  can we  take -  what's different  in that  earmark                                                                    
     than what you've described that,  you know, if we don't                                                                    
     finish it  we're on  the hook  for it?   So  what makes                                                                    
     that any different?   Why is that  a different category                                                                    
     of  earmark  or am  I  just  totally missing  something                                                                    
     here?                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  three earmarks  apply to  the Gravina  Bridge.                                                               
One earmark was  directed for roads only.  The  word "bridge" was                                                               
not in the title.  The  other two earmarks addressed the crossing                                                               
or  the bridge.   After  Hurricane Katrina,  Senator Ted  Stevens                                                               
changed the earmarks  for both bridges from  earmarks specific to                                                               
the KNIK  Arm and Gravina  Island bridge projects to  earmarks to                                                               
DOT&PF  for  any  purpose  eligible under  the  STP  category  of                                                               
apportionment,  which is  the most  flexible category  available.                                                               
Two  of the  three  earmarks were  given to  DOT&PF.   The  third                                                               
earmark remained  specific to roadwork  on Gravina  Island, which                                                               
is why that project went forward.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:56:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  how  many requests  to change  all                                                               
earmarks have been made to Alaska's congressional delegation.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said DOT&PF has  asked the  congressional delegation                                                               
to  ensure that  earmarks are  additive  and not  deductive.   He                                                               
acknowledged a  difference of opinion  on the value  of earmarks.                                                               
The  congressional  delegation  believes  earmarking  is  a  very                                                               
important part of its job.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  maintained  that  if  DOT&PF  has  total                                                               
flexibility with earmarks, it would  be difficult to oppose them.                                                               
He said  if only 10  percent of a project  is funded so  that the                                                               
money  can't be  used that  is one  thing, but  if DOT&PF  can be                                                               
given total  flexibility, he questioned  why anyone  would oppose                                                               
them.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:57:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  slide 18  of  his presentation  will make  the                                                               
point.  He continued his presentation:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     You  can see  here  the number  of  earmarks that  have                                                                    
     occurred  in the  federal transportation  program since                                                                    
     it was sort of authorized in  1956.  The key point here                                                                    
     is for  30 years we  were building the interstate  as a                                                                    
     nation.  That  was the motive behind this  program.  In                                                                    
     that 30 years, from '56  to '86, there were 12 earmarks                                                                    
     total in  30 years time  in all 50  states so it  was a                                                                    
     pretty rare event.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Since then, in the last  20 years, there have been over                                                                    
     9,000  earmarks.   I would  just sort  of ask  this one                                                                    
     question.   Could we have  built the  interstate system                                                                    
     and  achieve what  that has  done for  mobility in  the                                                                    
     United States under an earmark environment?                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON said  he  believes that  would have  been                                                               
possible  if   the  number   of  required   environmental  impact                                                               
statements was the same as it was in the 1950s and 1960s.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN agreed  and said  his  point is  the earlier  system                                                               
ensured projects in areas that were not politically powerful.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:58:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked what constitutes an earmark.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN replied, "An earmark is  a sum of money assigned to a                                                               
specific project by name."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:59:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  questioned whether  an earmark  could fund                                                               
either a project in the STIP or a project not in the STIP.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  the problem  is not  the earmark                                                               
itself but the type of earmark.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said that is correct.   He said a  certain number of                                                               
earmarks  go directly  to  planned  projects in  the  STIP.   The                                                               
earmarks that  cause problems  are those  that go  to communities                                                               
for non-transportation related work.  He continued:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The amount  of work they  involve is unbelievable.   If                                                                    
     it's not funded,  we really have to use  state funds to                                                                    
     pay  for that.   It's  been meeting  after meeting  and                                                                    
      dealing with agencies and trying to get earmarks re-                                                                      
     titled,  and  now we're  at  the  point where  we  have                                                                    
     earmarks that  are actually going back  and leaving the                                                                    
     state because we  couldn't use them.  We  never got the                                                                    
     problems ironed out.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:00:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  said  discretion   is  one  problem  with                                                               
earmarks since  DOT&PF may get an  earmark for a project  that no                                                               
one  has looked  at.   The second  problem is  that earmarks  are                                                               
often insufficient to complete a project.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:01:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  asked what  happened to the  federal funds                                                               
for the road from Juneau to  Haines and whether that money was an                                                               
earmark.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  a $15 million [federal] earmark  must stay with                                                               
that project.  In addition, a  certain amount of state funds were                                                               
appropriated to that specific project.   The balance of the funds                                                               
spent on  that project  would have to  come from  federal formula                                                               
dollars  annually.   He pointed  out  that road  will consist  of                                                               
several projects so  that in each year one of  the projects moves                                                               
forward, federal dollars will go toward it.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:02:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked  if the project is  dormant, dead, or                                                               
without funds.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said  it is dormant because its permits  have not yet                                                               
been issued.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:02:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     So one  of the problems  figuring out the STIP  is that                                                                    
     if you've got several large  projects that are going to                                                                    
     eat up  - essentially going  to be trying to  spend the                                                                    
     same  money,  you've got  to  determine  which ones  to                                                                    
     advance and  which ones not  in the  STIP.  Is  that an                                                                    
     accurate ...                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said exactly.   The department does a  balancing act                                                               
that starts with a list of resources.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:02:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked  if DOT&PF was looking  at two large-                                                               
scale  roads, how  it would  decide which  one should  go forward                                                               
when developing the STIP.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN noted a lot  of conversation goes on with management.                                                               
The  regional directors  discuss their  needs.   Most often,  the                                                               
decision is  made with compromise.   He maintained  that everyone                                                               
at  DOT&PF is  frustrated because  they  would like  to see  more                                                               
projects go forward.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:03:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  DOT&PF tries  to make  sure that                                                               
each  region's priority  projects are  getting some  attention in                                                               
the STIP.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said it does  and, for example, a three-year timeline                                                               
may be stretched to a five-year timeline.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:04:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN said his constituents  are very frustrated because                                                               
the earmarks for  the Gravina Island Bridge  were removed because                                                               
of nationwide  pressure after  Hurricane Katrina.   He  has heard                                                               
the money  was sent to the  state with the intention  of spending                                                               
it on  that project.   However, DOT&PF reprioritized  those funds                                                               
and  halted  the project  internally.    The Governor  has  since                                                               
announced the project would be  cancelled.  He maintained that it                                                               
is frustrating  for the  federal delegation  to get  earmarks and                                                               
then have DOT&PF decide what to do with the funds.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  explained that is  the tension between  earmarks and                                                               
the  federal process  in law.    The federal  process requires  a                                                               
long, involved  planning process  to identify priorities  for the                                                               
STIP.   Earmarks say  do it this  way.  He  pointed out  when the                                                               
Gravina Island Bridge  earmark was changed, it  became subject to                                                               
the planning  process.   So, from a  legal standpoint,  the state                                                               
had no choice but to do what it  did.  He said an executive order                                                               
issued  yesterday  says  when the  federal  government  looks  at                                                               
earmarks,  it  will look  to  what  the  law  says, not  to  what                                                               
congressional committees  or members say.   The thinking  is that                                                               
an  earmark is  an  act  of the  congressional  body,  not of  an                                                               
individual member.  He continued:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     We've been getting that  through other written guidance                                                                    
     for several  months now  that the -  and I'll  give you                                                                    
     this  example.   Earmarks are  often fuzzy  - who  gets                                                                    
     them, what  they're for, what  they really  intended to                                                                    
     do  with  them,   and  we  would  write   back  to  the                                                                    
     delegation and  get an answer  - well, I  really wanted                                                                    
     it to go  here and be for this purpose.   We would take                                                                    
     that and  show it  to Federal  Highways and  [it would]                                                                    
     say fine, do  that.  It worked pretty well  and we paid                                                                    
     attention to  that guidance.   Now we're being  told it                                                                    
     has no  standing, it  has no  merit whatsoever  under a                                                                    
     new  executive order  signed this  week.   If anything,                                                                    
     it's kind of  the tilting back to  the planning process                                                                    
     is the dominant  force as much as -  earmarks are still                                                                    
     going to  occur.  I don't  expect we'll see the  end of                                                                    
     earmarks.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:08:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN said the point is moot as he cannot imagine that                                                                 
Congress will approve an earmark with the name Gravina Island on                                                                
it for several generations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN pointed out the one earmark that remained named for                                                                 
Gravina Island was spent on Gravina Island.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked if DOT&PF will be back in the same                                                                  
boat if the executive order changes after the presidential                                                                      
election.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that is certainly possible, however executive                                                                  
orders tend to survive administrations.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:08:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     So on  [page] 19, let me  just give you the  two kinds.                                                                    
     There are two  kinds of amendments to the  STIP.  There                                                                    
     is what is known  as an administrative modification and                                                                    
     then an  amendment.  An administrative  modification is                                                                    
     a  very  simple,  quick, internal  process,  no  public                                                                    
     notice.   We make a change.   We write a  letter to the                                                                    
     feds and inform  them of the change and we  put that on                                                                    
     our   website   to   inform  the   public   that   that                                                                    
     administrative modification has  happened and there are                                                                    
     some  guidelines  in  the new  regulations  about  what                                                                    
     falls    under   the    threshold   and    becomes   an                                                                    
     administrative  modification and  what  has  to go  the                                                                    
     amendment  route.   The amendment  route  is much  more                                                                    
     formal  - advanced  public  notice.   We  go through  a                                                                    
     comment  period  and  give  people  the  notice.    Our                                                                    
     concern about  this is that  the guidance is  not hard.                                                                    
     We can't  tell you exactly  where the line lies  and we                                                                    
     have to negotiate that with  the federal agencies.  For                                                                    
     example, if  you have a  cost increase of -  10 percent                                                                    
     to 20 percent might be the  range in the guidance - and                                                                    
     we  have  to  decide  at some  point  we'll  reach  the                                                                    
     threshold where  we have  to go  to a  formal amendment                                                                    
     but we're in  an area where costs are  increasing by 15                                                                    
     and 20 percent a year.   So our ability to write a STIP                                                                    
     that  won't end  up with  an amendment  takes time  and                                                                    
     slows the process  down.  It's very tedious  - good for                                                                    
     public notice  but it certainly  is difficult  in terms                                                                    
     of  getting jobs  out.    We're in  a  state where  the                                                                    
     construction season lasts  five or six months  so if we                                                                    
     slow down to  do an amendment, that's going  to take us                                                                    
     two  or   three  months.     We  can  be   costing  the                                                                    
     contractors  some  real  dollars  and  that  ultimately                                                                    
     delays the benefits to the public.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     So, I'm  going to  tell you that  the STIP  before this                                                                    
     year was  the good  old days.   As bad  as it  may have                                                                    
     been,  it's bound  to get  a little  bit worse  because                                                                    
     we're going  to be  doing amendments, I'm  afraid, that                                                                    
     are overlapping.  If an  amendment takes four months to                                                                    
     process, we  may have  to have three  or four  of these                                                                    
     amendments  that  are  underway  simultaneously.    One                                                                    
     started  in January  and one  started in  February, one                                                                    
     started in  March and the  public is going to  ask well                                                                    
     which  one  of  these  amendments  is  the  one  I  pay                                                                    
     attention to.   Well  the truth is  you can  either pay                                                                    
     attention to  all of those  because they are  all doing                                                                    
     something.   That's  the  new rules  of  the game  that                                                                    
     we're ...                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:11:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  when DOT&PF  does advanced  funding                                                               
projects using  state funds,  whether it  is gambling  with state                                                               
money  because getting  reimbursed  with  federal funds  involves                                                               
some degree of risk.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  likened the concept to  a revolving fund so  that as                                                               
federal dollars  are reimbursed,  they replenish the  state fund,                                                               
which would be used year after  year.  The [revolving fund] would                                                               
need about  one year's  worth of  money.  He  said he  fears what                                                               
will  happen when  the  bill  is reauthorized  in  less than  two                                                               
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:12:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN questioned  whether the  money would  stop                                                               
revolving.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said it might.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:12:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I'll close with  the STIP on top of page  20.  Our STIP                                                                    
     is  a searchable  database accessible  on line.   There                                                                    
     are many different  search criteria, including election                                                                    
     district  and borough  name, census  district and  road                                                                    
     name, and  etcetera.  It's  got a lot  more information                                                                    
     than the  old presentation.   It's been  recognized and                                                                    
     honored nationally.  We  have several improvements that                                                                    
     we are  going to, as soon  as we can find  the time and                                                                    
     the money  to make them.   Now that it's  an electronic                                                                    
     database everything  takes programming time.   I talked                                                                    
     a little bit  about whether or not we  should add state                                                                    
     general funded  projects to  this document  even though                                                                    
     it  wouldn't have  the legal  necessity of  a federally                                                                    
     funded project.  It would  give the public one place to                                                                    
     see projects, to  see what is planned and  know what is                                                                    
     coming  and  have  the  sense of  schedule.    I  would                                                                    
     actually enjoy  input and see whether  you thought that                                                                    
     was a  good idea but that's  certainly one possibility.                                                                    
     It wouldn't be that hard to do.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     With  that, Mr.  Chairman,  I've got  a  little bit  of                                                                    
     bonus  material   about  what  the  future   holds  for                                                                    
     SAFETEA-LU,  the   reauthorization.    I   think  we've                                                                    
     answered the  question on the  STIP.  The next  slide -                                                                    
     in  about two  slides  is about  reauthorization -  Key                                                                    
     [indisc.],  it's called.   We're  21  months away  from                                                                    
     reauthorization, which is remarkably  short.  The three                                                                    
     issues to  watch will  be the  funding levels.  ... The                                                                    
     Highway  Trust Fund  has  not had  a  gas tax  increase                                                                    
     since '93  so you really  don't have any  real increase                                                                    
     in  revenue other  than more  drivers  but that  barely                                                                    
     keeps up with the fact  that there are more roads those                                                                    
     cars are  on.  The new  committee that came out  with a                                                                    
     report a week before last  is recommending that the gas                                                                    
     tax jump from  18 cents to almost 60 cents,  about a 40                                                                    
     cent  gas tax  increase.   We  can all  guess just  how                                                                    
     quickly  that will  get  adopted in  the  middle of  an                                                                    
     election cycle.   When I flew back from  the East Coast                                                                    
     two weeks  ago, my seat  mate was a congressman  and he                                                                    
     basically told me don't hold your breath on this one.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:14:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The  other issue  will be  funding  distribution.   How                                                                    
     will the money be allocated?   For years and years it's                                                                    
     been allocated by  a complex set of  formulas that have                                                                    
     benefited Alaska very  well. We are the  net big winner                                                                    
     in this  formula game.   We're getting,  depending upon                                                                    
     whether you measure it by  one year or several years or                                                                    
     40  years, somewhere  between  5, 6,  7  dollars to  1.                                                                    
     It's  a remarkable  ratio.   Hawaii  is  the next  best                                                                    
     state with  about 3 to  1.   A handful of  other states                                                                    
     are  above 1  to  1.   The  vast  majority  of the  big                                                                    
     population states are at the 90  to 95 cents to 1 so we                                                                    
     have a lot  to lose if those formulas  change and there                                                                    
     is now talk about complete redo of the formulas.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:15:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The other change that worries  me, just kind of looking                                                                    
     into the crystal ball, is  there's an awful lot of talk                                                                    
     about a  greenhouse gas reduction policy  being tied to                                                                    
     transportation.  If you look  to the past, Congress has                                                                    
     used  transportation funding  as  a way  to, you  know,                                                                    
     change  the  behavior  of  states to  get  them  to  do                                                                    
     certain  things  whether  it's seat  belts  or  drunken                                                                    
     driving or  the age of drinking  or you name it.   They                                                                    
     have had the  Clean Air Act, they have had  a number of                                                                    
     different  ways where  they attach  - do  this in  your                                                                    
     state laws  or you don't get  money.  So they  have the                                                                    
     ability  to use  the highway  bill as  a way  to change                                                                    
     behavior  on greenhouse  gases -  a lot  of talk  about                                                                    
     that  at  the  national  level.    The  committees  are                                                                    
     already doing their work.   There are already proposals                                                                    
     before Congress  as to  how to write  the bill  and the                                                                    
     nickname for it  is already on the street  - it's Green                                                                    
     TEA.   We've had  ISTEA and TEA  21 and  SAFETEA-LU and                                                                    
     now we may get Green TEA.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:16:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN noted the federal government has held                                                                     
carrots before the Alaska Legislature, such as $345 million in                                                                  
exchange for passing a seat belt law.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said the amount was $3 or $4 million.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked if the state is still getting that                                                                  
money.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said that was a one-time only payment.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked if Mr. Ottesen expects to see more                                                                  
"carrots."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said some of the penalties take money away, for                                                                     
example, a soft penalty took money away from highways but gave                                                                  
it back for highway safety.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:18:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN continued his presentation:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     One other thing  - I didn't bring you a  copy but there                                                                    
     is this report out by  a national commission that was -                                                                    
     and they are recommending  the entire highway program -                                                                    
     all the  existing rules basically  be thrown out  and a                                                                    
     new  set of  rules  be put  in place.    There are  108                                                                    
     funding  categories   within  U.S.   DOT.     They  are                                                                    
     proposing that all the DOT  departments or divisions be                                                                    
     changed and they no longer  be highways or aviation but                                                                    
     they  now   have  complete  new   focus  on   these  10                                                                    
     categories and  they would include  urban areas  over a                                                                    
     million  population.    That would  leave  out  Alaska.                                                                    
     High  speed  inter-city rail  -  that  would leave  out                                                                    
     Alaska.   Out of those  10 categories there's  only two                                                                    
     or three  that look  like they might  be useful  to us.                                                                    
     So it's just  something to be aware of.   Who knows how                                                                    
     much traction it will get,  whether it will become law,                                                                    
     but it  would completely rewrite  the bill from  top to                                                                    
     bottom.  This could happen in the foreseeable future.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     If you  look at  the top  of page 21  you see  that the                                                                    
     bills  have been  getting  progressively  a little  bit                                                                    
     later.   The  last  authorization bill  took 22  months                                                                    
     past the due  date before it was turned into  law.  I'm                                                                    
     hoping we get  a couple of years of the  old formula to                                                                    
     carry us  through before some new  formula comes along.                                                                    
     That's kind of the end of my slide, Mr. Chairman.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:19:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said his questions are about the bonding                                                                 
board.  He stated:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     It appears  to me that  if we  had two years  before we                                                                    
     really know what  is going on that if  we start issuing                                                                    
     bonds now and spending them,  we may be gambling on any                                                                    
     federal money  spent out of  that unless  the intention                                                                    
     of that is not to use  it for any type of federal match                                                                    
     or any  type of thing  like that and just  strictly use                                                                    
     it  for GF  construction.   So will  the proposed  $150                                                                    
     million - I don't know how big the bond is.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN said it is $121 million for transportation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON continued:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     How will  that affect  the STIP  plan because  that's a                                                                    
     defined revenue  source that you  are going  to invest,                                                                    
     place in  the STIP  that 2½  years from  now it  may be                                                                    
     totally  different, gone  sideways, you  know, nothing,                                                                    
     only the  two things  that you're  talking about.   All                                                                    
     these changes  on the  horizon - why  would we  want to                                                                    
     bond  for that  now,  go  into debt  now  with such  an                                                                    
     uncertain future?                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  said the uncertain  future is really on  the federal                                                               
side  and  comes   down  to  whether  the  status   quo  will  be                                                               
maintained.   Alaska has become  the state  that is hard  to love                                                               
from a  national perspective.   Alaska has  not paid its  way for                                                               
quite awhile and  its citizens get a permanent  fund dividend and                                                               
pay an  8 cent  gas tax.   The state funded  bonds would  have no                                                               
federal  strings  attached.    The  bond  funds  would  have  the                                                               
advantage of being  available late into 2009, which  is likely to                                                               
be a down year.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:22:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked if  any of the  bond money  will be                                                               
used in the STIP as matching funds.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  it  will not.    The funds  will  go to  named                                                               
projects  and, because  they fall  into the  category of  general                                                               
funded projects, the projects can move faster.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:22:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  DOT&PF doesn't  anticipate using                                                               
the STIP  as a mechanism to  get the bond money  back and whether                                                               
the same is  true of the proposed transportation fund.   He noted                                                               
the original  amount for the  transportation fund is  supposed to                                                               
be $50  million and asked if  that money will be  used to forward                                                               
fund  projects that  will  be repaid  by  the federal  government                                                               
through the STIP.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN said  both  are entirely  unrelated  to the  federal                                                               
funds.  One benefit is that  they don't have federal strings.  He                                                               
clarified that  two packages of bonds  were issued in 2003;  a GO                                                               
bond  issue and  a Grant  Anticipation Revenue  Vehicles (GARVEE)                                                               
bond package.   The GARVEE  bond package was repaid  with federal                                                               
funds.  He explained:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     So now when  I write the STIP, just like  paying off an                                                                    
     installment plan when you buy  a car at that dealer and                                                                    
     you get an installment loan,  we have to take a certain                                                                    
     amount of  federal funds to  pay off that  GARVEE bond.                                                                    
     That one does rely upon federal funds being there.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:24:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  thanked Mr.  Ottesen for  his enlightening                                                               
presentation.   He stated,  "I'm surprised that  a person  who is                                                               
still walking around loose could actually understand it."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN replied, "I appreciate that - I think."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:24:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN also  expressed appreciation  to Mr.  Ottesen for                                                               
his  presentation.   He  announced  that  the committee  hearings                                                               
would be  scheduled from 1:00  to 3:00 pm  in the future  so that                                                               
two members can attend the full  hearings.  He said the committee                                                               
appreciates how  hard DOT&PF employees  work and is aware  of the                                                               
challenges the  department faces with  the federal changes.   His                                                               
goal is to shed light on  the process because his constituents do                                                               
not  understand why  projects are  not done.   He  expressed hope                                                               
that the presentation will educate people on the process.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said he  appreciates  the  attention given  to  the                                                               
topic.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:26:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  said at the same  time, he believes DOT&PF  has a                                                               
long  way to  go.   He expressed  concern for  the need  for more                                                               
communication with the public.   He suggested if projects slip or                                                               
administrative changes are made, DOT&PF publish a one paragraph                                                                 
explanation in the local newspaper.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN agreed with Representative Johnson's former comments                                                                
about notifying project applicants and the public and said                                                                      
DOT&PF can start doing that this year.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:27:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Transportation Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:27                                                                 
p.m.                                                                                                                            

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